what about archers ubalanced

If you have any suggestion in order to make the game better, tell them, they are always welcome.
kador
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:08 pm
Location: RJ - Brasil
Contact:

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby kador » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:18 pm

make it Top 1 priority, since it would bring new (old) players and... with no offense, you failed on all other prioritys

good job by thinking about that.
and even a better job by sharing with us.
keep pushing
Be the change you wanna see to the world.

User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:27 am

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby Thomas » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:31 pm

Nice to see more activity.. and info from GM

We have discussed AC drop before:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5648
It seem to have good feedback so far.

Some thoughts:
Does it drop "white" or "blue" ac ? Im thinking since wizards already have incredible damage due to BR rares it could make wizard too powerful in a team battle.
In this sence droping physical ac could be of first choice.

The actual amount: I would start at -12ac per hit and capping at -60ac...

Making a counter to AC is a good idea since it may lead to more popularity to smart rares that are also possible to counter hence making the game more interesting.

The effect could be that the player whose ac has been dropped turns red similar when being under confuse alternatively ac drop could have small slow integrated with an adition of bleeding animation (similar when you get hit by archer boss monster)


Since increasing defence of archer has been unpopular idea to players i have another recomendation: give archer additionally self buff that gives him curse resist - somekind fire shield that only makes archer invul to slow/confuse/stun/stone but not pepsi
This would give archer a choice to counter two of the most widely used curses: stun or pepsi (icing armor) without giving archer chance for defence buff. This would make archer gameplay much more interesting...
In comparision at the moment thief has pepsi resist+damage decrease from icing armor, wizard can counter stun, slow and stone with additional spell resist, warrior can counter pepsi by using pepsi to other opponent but since warrior is allmost impossible to kill at d3 d4 they can take the abuse plus warriors lightning shield decreases blood lighting damage by 40% in addition to 40% physical resist.
Priest reflects all the curses or blocks them with sfd that additionally gives them physical damage resist.

But to actually make these changes effectively in DR seems quite far fetched and difficult.... im afraid by the time it actually gets done the community or server have died out... easyer way could be just to buff ex damage and give poison tree to archer or just increase ex and see how it goes...
Last edited by Thomas on Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
SimpleStupid
Posts: 1480
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:17 am

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby SimpleStupid » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:38 pm

Blue pepsi, green posion and red penetration into a total black stun =DD
顺风速上可装逼,逆风回城可挂机 8-)

kador
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:08 pm
Location: RJ - Brasil
Contact:

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby kador » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:50 pm

SimpleStupid wrote:Blue pepsi, green posion and red penetration into a total black stun =DD

such a racist game...
blue (pepsi) is cool
green (poison) is cool
red (penetration) is cool
black (stun) is not cool... :greet:
Be the change you wanna see to the world.

User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:27 am

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby Thomas » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:51 pm

If we change stun from black to ... lets say purple or pink it would still not be cool... ok maybe when its pink its better.. you won feelsosad when die.

User avatar
täisdibla
Posts: 1821
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:56 pm
Location: Lalalaland
Contact:

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby täisdibla » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:29 pm

GMSignPainter wrote:We have a plan on buffing archers by giving them their own curse skill.
This will afaik be a tweak of the current Converting Armor skill. If I remember, some of the parts I will write below were suggested by some players.
Anyways, here's what we plan on doing:
Having any kind of protection on the archer won't prevent from using Converting Armor.
One shot of Converting Armor on a player will reduce his AC. Each shot will add a stack up to 5. Each stack lasts 30s so the curse will last 2:30 with 5 stacks.
If the Archer puts stacks on another target, the stacks on its previous target get removed.
If the Archer changes map, the stacks on his target get removed.
If the Archer dies, the stacks on his target get removed.

Give us some feedback please.

This is wonderful, would allow for more damage output on single targets, will be a lot easier to focus down sole surviving priests and warriors.
Question: does the AC debuff work for everyone attacking the target or just the archer?

pukilu
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:50 am

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby pukilu » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:33 pm

:love: :love:

hope this skill can be tasted in near future..

+1 for this initiative..

should add 10% damage for archer too.. (Y)

User avatar
GMSignPainter
Site Admin
Posts: 2840
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:18 pm
Location: Lyon - France
Contact:

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby GMSignPainter » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:33 pm

täisdibla wrote:
GMSignPainter wrote:We have a plan on buffing archers by giving them their own curse skill.
This will afaik be a tweak of the current Converting Armor skill. If I remember, some of the parts I will write below were suggested by some players.
Anyways, here's what we plan on doing:
Having any kind of protection on the archer won't prevent from using Converting Armor.
One shot of Converting Armor on a player will reduce his AC. Each shot will add a stack up to 5. Each stack lasts 30s so the curse will last 2:30 with 5 stacks.
If the Archer puts stacks on another target, the stacks on its previous target get removed.
If the Archer changes map, the stacks on his target get removed.
If the Archer dies, the stacks on his target get removed.

Give us some feedback please.

This is wonderful, would allow for more damage output on single targets, will be a lot easier to focus down sole surviving priests and warriors.
Question: does the AC debuff work for everyone attacking the target or just the archer?


Everyone.

User avatar
ExtraOrdinary
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:38 pm

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby ExtraOrdinary » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:09 am

if you are dual 4 as BBKill or Torment archer full rare also is weak?
Why dont give to archers some kinda of skill that give them resist against magics or ac increase and they need pick carefully wich one of them to use?
could be resist magics skill+ multi fire or AC increase+extreme ... if using resist magic cant combine with extreme and so...
then they can feel better coz got a mix of possibilities to go pk...
I dont agree on the change you propose about a new ability to decrease AC from enemies. 1 thing is using own skills to be stronger as every class does, other thing is ya using own skills to decrease abilities of other class, and no way I dont agree.
Is crap that some class got the ability in a simple skill to mess with your AC rares, its overpowered since an archer make more damage than a thief. If you success on doing this change, a 200 tactics archer can kill everyone and theres nothing that prevent other class to stop it, and I repeat, the damage dealed by archers is already the most higher melee attack...
Changes should be made thinking about the archer itself, giving a chance to the player to get own abilities to swap between new skills as a warrior or thief does.

@EDIT: just readed that if an archer attck you with converting armor then ur ac get lowered and everyone can attack you and hit harder, my question is, if you get pked by 3-4 archers you will have the same AC as a Slime? crap.
I tell you again, the ability you give to ARCHERS should be based at own player skills giving the possibility of using n combine new skills as warriors or thief does; that give them the chance of not getting killed easy by everyone at same time..not decreasing the ac or any other value from enemies.

User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:27 am

Re: what about archers ubalanced

Postby Thomas » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:11 am

D4 archer compared to D4 thief is weak.
I think if 3-4 archers will use ac drop on same opponent, the cap will still remain the same, but since there are more attackers the ac will drop faster.
If you compare base damage in weapons then you see that:
Archer d3 bow d3 arrow 189+70 = 259 damage.
Thief D3 knife damage 230 damage +9damage when thief discard 23ac and uses kuala instead of DS shield.

The base damage diference between archer and thief is 20-29 damage - g2-g3force depending on above.
That is when you are counting maximum base damage for both class but since every weapon has damage range the difference can be as small as...15 damage - if thief hits maximum hit and archer minimum hit.
Is g3 force same as 34 white ac shield +ice shield+ invis+pepsi+poison skills?
For example if archer is using AC mantle and thief attack mantle... thief will have more damage and more ac.

Making archer harder to kill is just making them more thief... when it was discussed previously it was general understanding that archer should remain easy to kill but killing opponents should then also be easyer... because right now as i have shown above, the archer damage gain is small compared how easy is to kill them.. not to mention they are allmost certainly dead after stun/pepsi.. curses that are constantly spammed in PK fights.. where other class can counter pepsi or stun.. archer has only icing armor option that gives them resist to pepsi but gives no defence buff hence making him pretty naked.

In my experience, in mass PK fights it has been easyer to use icing armor and try to rely in your movement.. since having sfd+pepsi is less survival rate than no pepsi and no sfd.'
Since stun is widely used, it becomes a choice to die from stun or to have better chance of survival when under sfd and pepsi.

Edit: Making counter for AC would be making gameplay more fast paced and fun for also others than archers...not to mention giving archer finally a team oriented role.
For example if ac drop went through ss - a combination of high tt warrior with ss pierce and archer who is dropping ac could make life pretty hard to those SS priests.

Whole pvp could be more rock-paper-cissors style... since now there is extremely efficient counters for physical attack - CA, Magic resist is countered by basic resist. Smart is countered by candles but AC right now has no actual counter than just raw physical damage.


Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests