To begin: I hate ZT, their actions, their personalities, and their philosophies. I'm only here because I was informed of this.
That aside, how can anyone justify the actions that the GMs took? Kill a guild on a GM char because the "majority of players" complained? Last I checked, majority doesn't always know best. If GMs offered the server free mantles, I'm fairly certain the majority would embrace this gift. Does it mean that it's a GOOD thing? I think most people would agree that GMs should not interfere with ingame politics and power struggles.
What ZT did is pretty f***ed up by holding up quest but they did it to help one of their guild members. So now the majority of the server is saying that looking out for your friends/guild members is wrong because it sacrifices the rest of the server. No one is FORCING the non-ZT ghosts to stay for the df. There are more than 1 way to get df. ZT won the right to abyss fair and square (supposedly). This is the exact same thing as if 2/3 nations agree to not finish the last stone for the other nation(s) so that everyone in the other nation(s) can get DF. Would you ban people for dragging out local war for the whole 2 hours? I'm sure not everyone wants to not relog or some people will get dc'ed before the 2 hours is up and lose their df.
Instead of directly interfering with in game politics/gameplay with a GM char, why not put in coded, ingame checks on these problems instead of taking the easy way out and making a "because we said so" rule? That's seriously the lame way and easy way out of your problem.
Suggestions:
-a 1 hour time limit per floor instead of 4 hours for the overall quest
-a check that each character can only spend x number of hours per week inside quests (so if a group of chars drags out quest, they lose time to do another quest)
Geng
Well said LP ..
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LadyPhoenix
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Re: Geng
Eleval wrote:they won't waste time sending 50 mails, use your common sense...
Takes 5 minutes to write a sql query that inserts the mail into the mailbox of all chars from the same guild. Or insert the GM char into the particular guild and send a general guild mail.
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ArabianArrow
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Clarifying
*DO NOT SPAM OR FLAME*
Subject: Corruption?
It certainly isn't the guild members fault either. Since the warning was poorly issued, it is definitely not fair that the rest of the guild members have been punished, WITHOUT a warning. Don't you agree that if a guild is to be warned, then an issue should be sent to all players. I am 100% certain that GMs are capable of doing this, as this would be the PROPER way to do things, don't you think? If more than one player is to be warned, should a GM tell Player A to tell Player B and C that they are warned? No! Absolutely not! That is not proper at all. Since Player B and C have not received any such warning, then why should they be punished under the pretense that they have "ignored" the warning. If anyone is to be punished or ghosted, it should be the player that was warned. That seems most logical to me.
As for "holding up the game play", there are 4 hours to do the quest. When players go to quest they should definitely put aside 4 hours to do a quest. Finishing in 1 hour is definitely a privilege, not a right. ZT has never stopped any players from getting dual fame by prolonging to the full extent of time. This is not a form of harassment as others have claimed. It is a form of comradery to their own guild members to ensure that no-one is left out from the dual fame. We cannot be certain as to when a Gm will be online, and don't you agree that GMs should make an effort to be online during quest times? It is common for people of all connections, in all countries to disconnect from maps, especially during quests. Is it our fault that your implementation of re-logging in quests was a "failure"? No, it definitely isn't our fault. What other option are we left with but to wait for a GM to come online. Where are the facts that show ZT has stopped people from getting dual fame? Or is this all based on the assumption that they are out to block the quest for other players? Are punishments now being issued on assumptions?
When you lose in PK during a quest, you have no choice but to follow along the quest at the pace of the "winners." The only solution is to WIN the PK. There are no rules against it, and there was no harassment, and a warning issued by a GM to ONE PLAYER (GMSignpainter of all people, considering his history with Torment) is the most unprofessional way this could have been handled. If i were a GM, before issuing that warning I would have updated the Server rules, under the harassment section and included this scenario and made sure that the entire server was aware of this NEW RULE, before being unfair to a single guild. Don't you agree?
Most importantly, to top it all off, the last time Torment took Jill's word it resulted in a 7-day ban.
Shayne says: then GM should have sai d "yes"
GMNyx says: they were wrong
Shayne says: so they made a mistake
GMNyx says: shit happens, errors happens
Shayne says: and im being punished for it
GMNyx says: yes
Shayne says: LOL
nice..
GMNyx says: thats right
The 'warning' Jill is presumably speaking of was via his PERSONAL msn. Do you honestly think Torment will take anything Jill says seriously, especially after admitting to mistreating ZT members and his history of un-professionalism? There's a line that separates a GM from a player. Unfortunately, some GMs don't know where to draw this line. I am positive that your fellow GM can verify this comment. Why should one guild suffer for your mistakes. Try to be more organized in the future. Like I've always said, maybe if GMs spent more time trying to improve the server instead of their own characters, we would not run into these problems. It is sad that we are the victims.
GM has personal grudge against a player. Always told him not to let his emotions intervene with his GM job. Special treatment for ZT ^^.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Have a class soon so I won't be able to post the other ss now.
Subject: Corruption?
GMSpherix wrote:We have warned about this before and notified the guild leader that we would take action if we were to see more of this obstructive behaviour. It's not our fault your guild leader does not communicate with his guild members.
It certainly isn't the guild members fault either. Since the warning was poorly issued, it is definitely not fair that the rest of the guild members have been punished, WITHOUT a warning. Don't you agree that if a guild is to be warned, then an issue should be sent to all players. I am 100% certain that GMs are capable of doing this, as this would be the PROPER way to do things, don't you think? If more than one player is to be warned, should a GM tell Player A to tell Player B and C that they are warned? No! Absolutely not! That is not proper at all. Since Player B and C have not received any such warning, then why should they be punished under the pretense that they have "ignored" the warning. If anyone is to be punished or ghosted, it should be the player that was warned. That seems most logical to me.
As for "holding up the game play", there are 4 hours to do the quest. When players go to quest they should definitely put aside 4 hours to do a quest. Finishing in 1 hour is definitely a privilege, not a right. ZT has never stopped any players from getting dual fame by prolonging to the full extent of time. This is not a form of harassment as others have claimed. It is a form of comradery to their own guild members to ensure that no-one is left out from the dual fame. We cannot be certain as to when a Gm will be online, and don't you agree that GMs should make an effort to be online during quest times? It is common for people of all connections, in all countries to disconnect from maps, especially during quests. Is it our fault that your implementation of re-logging in quests was a "failure"? No, it definitely isn't our fault. What other option are we left with but to wait for a GM to come online. Where are the facts that show ZT has stopped people from getting dual fame? Or is this all based on the assumption that they are out to block the quest for other players? Are punishments now being issued on assumptions?
When you lose in PK during a quest, you have no choice but to follow along the quest at the pace of the "winners." The only solution is to WIN the PK. There are no rules against it, and there was no harassment, and a warning issued by a GM to ONE PLAYER (GMSignpainter of all people, considering his history with Torment) is the most unprofessional way this could have been handled. If i were a GM, before issuing that warning I would have updated the Server rules, under the harassment section and included this scenario and made sure that the entire server was aware of this NEW RULE, before being unfair to a single guild. Don't you agree?
Most importantly, to top it all off, the last time Torment took Jill's word it resulted in a 7-day ban.
Shayne says: then GM should have sai d "yes"
GMNyx says: they were wrong
Shayne says: so they made a mistake
GMNyx says: shit happens, errors happens
Shayne says: and im being punished for it
GMNyx says: yes
Shayne says: LOL
nice..
GMNyx says: thats right
The 'warning' Jill is presumably speaking of was via his PERSONAL msn. Do you honestly think Torment will take anything Jill says seriously, especially after admitting to mistreating ZT members and his history of un-professionalism? There's a line that separates a GM from a player. Unfortunately, some GMs don't know where to draw this line. I am positive that your fellow GM can verify this comment. Why should one guild suffer for your mistakes. Try to be more organized in the future. Like I've always said, maybe if GMs spent more time trying to improve the server instead of their own characters, we would not run into these problems. It is sad that we are the victims.
GM has personal grudge against a player. Always told him not to let his emotions intervene with his GM job. Special treatment for ZT ^^.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Have a class soon so I won't be able to post the other ss now.
Re: Clarifying
Eleval:
BTW Mister Olon:
Quote:
3. The GM team reserves the right to determine what constitutes a loophole and what doesn't. Just because a certain action is not listed under this section as a loophole, does not mean the GM team cannot determine that specific action to be a loophole.
Disclaimer: Please do not use the harassment rules as a tool to exact revenge on other players. If the GM team reasonably believes we are being used as a political tool, we will not entertain any more reports from such player. Any ambiguity will be determined by the GM team to ensure harassment is not taking place and the GM team is not being used as a political tool.
Follow the rules, cry later.
So, lets talk about loopholes shall we. Let's say there's a war, vyseus has lost, but poor soul me, I gotta go to bed already, still there is 1 hour 20 minutes of war to go. And guess what, I see zypern and yllse not destroying each other, but farming df off of each other. So what I gotta do? Need to turn off PC when go to sleep cause dad said so, so the option of leaving the pc on falls out. Ok, what about I go destroy all the opposite stones, oh damn, they won't let me cause one man can't kill a whole nation(just like one man can't finish the whole quest). So what choice do I have, I gotta wait for a hour and 20 minutes just cause GM's decided that this "loophole" is not as important as the one in quest. Like ArabianArrow said, if you go to war or quest, take your time and think of it as the worst case scenario. It is our given right to finish the quest as we please when we win the PK...just as it is your given right to waste as much time in war as you please when you are victorious.
Oh and Jill, huny, lookie here.
Now go ahead and FIND ME A RULE where it says we CAN'T use the time given to us by the makers of this game to finish the quest as we please.
Why you gotta be such a hypocrite.
Edit: Oh and I already said this in another topic but since we're putting it all under one roof then why not. Another thing that can be called "special treatment for ZT" is that there were members of atleast one, if not two Vyseus guilds alive throughout the whole quest. So why was it only ZT was punished?
BTW Mister Olon:
Quote:
3. The GM team reserves the right to determine what constitutes a loophole and what doesn't. Just because a certain action is not listed under this section as a loophole, does not mean the GM team cannot determine that specific action to be a loophole.
Disclaimer: Please do not use the harassment rules as a tool to exact revenge on other players. If the GM team reasonably believes we are being used as a political tool, we will not entertain any more reports from such player. Any ambiguity will be determined by the GM team to ensure harassment is not taking place and the GM team is not being used as a political tool.
Follow the rules, cry later.
So, lets talk about loopholes shall we. Let's say there's a war, vyseus has lost, but poor soul me, I gotta go to bed already, still there is 1 hour 20 minutes of war to go. And guess what, I see zypern and yllse not destroying each other, but farming df off of each other. So what I gotta do? Need to turn off PC when go to sleep cause dad said so, so the option of leaving the pc on falls out. Ok, what about I go destroy all the opposite stones, oh damn, they won't let me cause one man can't kill a whole nation(just like one man can't finish the whole quest). So what choice do I have, I gotta wait for a hour and 20 minutes just cause GM's decided that this "loophole" is not as important as the one in quest. Like ArabianArrow said, if you go to war or quest, take your time and think of it as the worst case scenario. It is our given right to finish the quest as we please when we win the PK...just as it is your given right to waste as much time in war as you please when you are victorious.
Oh and Jill, huny, lookie here.
Now go ahead and FIND ME A RULE where it says we CAN'T use the time given to us by the makers of this game to finish the quest as we please.
Why you gotta be such a hypocrite.
Edit: Oh and I already said this in another topic but since we're putting it all under one roof then why not. Another thing that can be called "special treatment for ZT" is that there were members of atleast one, if not two Vyseus guilds alive throughout the whole quest. So why was it only ZT was punished?
Last edited by Olon on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LadyPhoenix
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Re: Clarifying
Olon wrote:/cry /cry /cry
Re: Clarifying
LadyPhoenix wrote:Why you gotta be such a copycat and steal my df during local war analogy?
Sorry lol, had it written in a file in advance, just posted wat was in it
GMs asked for "real facts" so we wanted to put them all in one place, and please, try to keep this as clean as possible.
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