Permanent Ban from Leeching a Hacker

[LadyPhoenix]

When a decision is final, the case will be closed and any inquiries will be ignored. Players may discuss the issue as long as they stay within forum rules, but GMs will not take a part of that discussion.

so I'll use this right.


Why are players who LEECH hackers permanently banned? If a player KNEW outright that the person they are in party with is a hacker, they would most likely be in on the hacking and be hacking themselves. What's to benefit from leeching a hacker vs. hacking on your own character?

There's a lot of hacks that are client-side and can't be seen by other player's clients. The only way to detect it is server-side or there are very small minor differences. If you're leveling with a guild member that is hacking and you actually trust that guild member, they'll most likely believe them when they say "it's just lag" or "it's a bug".

If this is a "rule" then why are a lot of ZT members not permanently banned? Before the ZT and CN starts PKing each other, some of them were leveling together and leeching from each other. Th CN's were banned for hacking but all those players that they partied in the past who had no idea they were leeching from a hacker were not banned.

So now you're going to ban innocent people who are in the same guild as some hackers? Do you even talk to the leeching player and ask them if they're aware that the hacker is indeed hacking? Everyone knows DR is a buggy game and some players may not know what are accepted bugs and what isn't an accepted bug.

The case of lovecatcat who got banned for attacking non-stop: Did you know that warriors can just keep on casting xlightning and make it cast almost non-stop too? To a new player, how is that any different than what lovecatcat was doing by hacking to attack non-stop.

If a player is constantly leveling with hackers, then perhaps give them a permanent ban but for players that party others just to get into a party and didn't know better between hacking and not hacking, how can you justify a permanent ban? A more justified punishment would be just a rollback of those levels.

[GMSignBreaker]

We have cleared this up within ourselves. Direct leeching of hackers will result in a temporary ban.

GMSignBreaker

[GMTempest]

It's a 3 day ban for leeching hackers.

Though I agree in some situations a player who has no knowledge would not know if they are partying a hacker or not. BUT in many many situations it doesn't take that much knowledge to see a player is hacking especially when the most common hacks are the constant damages that kill monsters under a second, something that any average player wouldn't see everyday.

Most often than not, a person leeching a hacker knows they are and I've yet to witness a case otherwise and I'm happy enough that normal players are knowledgeable when reporting hackers but we do give the leechers the benefit of the doubt.

[Revolt]

i agree with everything your saying LP although i have to defend ZT lol i know its not a direct attack on us, but ZT and CNs have been at war since first day of the server.., it started in ice dungeonso we haven't actually level'd with hackers... only time there was peace was for one abyss maze but same day Emp broke the peace by pking HamSupLu in yeti lol anyway... once again iknow it wasnt a personal attack but just WANTED to point that out

[balzak]

why not make the punishment based on what hack the player banned was using? if it is a hack that anyone can see so there is no excuse the player know they are doing something wrong and should be punished but if the hacker is using something that is not that easy to spot or even impossible to tell them no punishment or small punishment?

[LadyPhoenix]

We have cleared this up within ourselves. Direct leeching of hackers will result in a temporary ban.

GMSignBreaker

2. Hacks

The use of hacks are strictly prohibited. Hacking is defined as, "the use of a third-party program that allows actions not allowed under normal gaming circumstances which allows the player to gain an advantage over other players." Any player caught using any hacks for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over players will be permanently banned.

from viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3181

Unfortunately, the rules have not been updated since you have discussed this within yourselves. Banning a player for not violating an existing rule is quite, biased and is very unprofessional. If you add this rule and apply it for all future cases, then players cannot argue against it. At the moment, the only thing in the rules section about hacking talks about the player directly hacking. From a player's perspective, you are banning a player for no apparent reason because any players who are leeching hackers at this moment in time are NOT violating any rules.

[Duran]

I thought it was pretty obviously implied that if you're leeching a hacker you best expect to get punished. I mean if that's not the case, EVERY1 would just make a hacking char and leech off their own chars/friends. This sounds a whole lot like adrenaline banned case again. 1 Person gets banned and all their friends make a huge riot need to just let it go.

I wouldve preferred permanent ban for leeching hackers only if the situation is obvious

[LadyPhoenix]

EVERY1 would just make a hacking char and leech off their own chars/friends. This sounds a whole lot like adrenaline banned case again. 1 Person gets banned and all their friends make a huge riot need to just let it go.

They can check by IP if 2 people share accounts and are doing it on purpose or just happened to meet up and party each other.

It's not like the adrenaline case because in the adrenaline case, everyone shared their accounts. The people who hacked logged onto characters that only "leeched" the hackers.

[GMSignBreaker]

We have cleared this up within ourselves. Direct leeching of hackers will result in a temporary ban.

GMSignBreaker

2. Hacks

The use of hacks are strictly prohibited. Hacking is defined as, "the use of a third-party program that allows actions not allowed under normal gaming circumstances which allows the player to gain an advantage over other players." Any player caught using any hacks for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over players will be permanently banned.

from viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3181

Unfortunately, the rules have not been updated since you have discussed this within yourselves. Banning a player for not violating an existing rule is quite, biased and is very unprofessional. If you add this rule and apply it for all future cases, then players cannot argue against it. At the moment, the only thing in the rules section about hacking talks about the player directly hacking. From a player's perspective, you are banning a player for no apparent reason because any players who are leeching hackers at this moment in time are NOT violating any rules.

Any ambiguity in the rules shall be construed strictly to ensure a pleasant gaming experience.

You are right in that it's not directly in the rules. The only thing we discussed amongst ourselves was whether or not it should be permanent ban or temporary ban. The concept of banning party members leeching from hackers has always been there.

In case you want to argue there's no "ambiguity,"

Any player caught using any hacks for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over players will be permanently banned.

An ambiguity does exist and therefore we have made the decision that leeching from hackers will earn you a three day ban.

I explicitly left open wriggling room for the GM team to make independent decisions on ambiguous cases so that players cannot come out and say "it wasn't listed word for word in the rules so therefore I haven't broken any rules."

And we are taking a part in this discussion because lovecatcat or her party member did not send an appeals for us to consider. If and when they send an appeal and a final decision has been made, we will not take part of this decision.

GMSignBreaker

[LadyPhoenix]

An ambiguity does exist and therefore we have made the decision that leeching from hackers will earn you a three day ban.

That is fine. I'm fairy certain you decided on a permanent ban a few minutes ago. I would still like for you to somehow notify or make sure that the party members know that the person they are leeching from is hacking though.

I'm asking this in general, not just about RoyalHaze and Lovecatcat. It would also be nice to put explicitly in the rules that leeching from a hacker is bannable.