Geng

[GMNyx]

Im at work currently but will respond soon

[Minipp]

And yet, you people still continue to play.

Stupid is stupid..

Thanks,
Minipp

[GMNyx]

Lets make this clear. The only thing that matters is was this fair or not? is the damage caused to the ZT invididuals higher than the damage caused to the community.

Now lets define 'Fair' before we go any further:
#1 Equity
#2 Distributive justice as resources are limited

Most players seem to skip the second part of this very important concept and an integral part of fairness

i kept it as a secret cause for the first time i bugged abyss for legends ?? he only banned me for 7 days and made up a story to cover it for me, alot of chars were in there too but only banned 3 of my chars .Thanks jill
for the 2nd time me and my partners edited on carmichael and other chars GMSignPainter msg me on MSN telling me to stop edit and he wont ban me for this time
i still have all msn history with me here...tell me if u need prov

And still, no GM has denied any of these accusations... and they most likely won't. Do what you do best and /hide under carpet.

consider this an official DENIAL

This player was banned for using a bug (his story keeps changing which is always entertaining). The pasted part is the final and last part of a great fictional comedy.

Fact #1 Why would GM while having fun in-game, check if a item traded to him or her is hacked or bugged or what ever. While hes playing, he is not a GM. Fair dont you think ?
Fact #2 Nothing has been covered, indeed the player abused a bug in dungeon and helped & told the GMs which lead to the fast fix and temporary ban of the player. Fair dont you think?
Fact #3 I checked the char and it was not edited as he said it was. Player trying to look cool by saying he can hack things even tho the facts say something else. Up to others to believe if this person defeated some better hackers
Fact #4 Players banned story change to fit the current need. Why bring it up every time there is issue with X or Y or Z? What do you think you will accomplish with this? This is definitely the biggest disappointment to me seeing few good people twist a banned players story at certain times to fit their needs.
Fact #5 If your guild leader doesnt relay messages from GM you should quit the guild. There will be features in which the guild leader will do decisions that will affect your character in ways. There is just no other way around this.

Instead of directly interfering with in game politics/gameplay with a GM char, why not put in coded, ingame checks on these problems instead of taking the easy way out and making a "because we said so" rule? That's seriously the lame way and easy way out of your problem.

Suggestions:
-a 1 hour time limit per floor instead of 4 hours for the overall quest
-a check that each character can only spend x number of hours per week inside quests (so if a group of chars drags out quest, they lose time to do another quest)

Yes this will be coded but we cannot fix it in code when it just happend for the first time. So a temporary fix was thought up. Fair dont you think?

Takes 5 minutes to write a sql query that inserts the mail into the mailbox of all chars from the same guild. Or insert the GM char into the particular guild and send a general guild mail.

Execpt direct sql queries are not used while a GM is working on a support issue + data integrity is kept. But you have a small point that it would be better to do that and wonder about the weird questions later from other GMs that didnt attend that day.

Now go ahead and FIND ME A RULE where it says we CAN'T use the time given to us by the makers of this game to finish the quest as we please.
Why you gotta be such a hypocrite.

might sound corny but the GM's have a duty to individuals versus groups. Why? Because it works in real life too. In real life civil legal systems (and in other mmorpgs) broad "general clause" allows the authority to have leeway in applying the law. Decision was based on equity, distributive justice and common good.

two Vyseus guilds alive throughout the whole quest. So why was it only ZT was punished?

Did they actively participate in blocking the quest? Doubt it. They just went with the flow

Summa summarum:
Egotism, vanity, conceit, and selfishness do not make a friendly environment to have fun in. Dont you think blocking an integral part of the game is unfair to everyone? If you fail to see this there is nothing else the GM team can do. Now that the nasty part is over; Olon you do have a point that this didnt go down that well. We could have mailed all players in question, we should have. For that the team feels sorry. That said i still think SignPainter did the correct thing, as do other GM's. At least the GM's are 1 experience richer and in the event of next guild related issue. it will be mailed to all players in question

Was equity served? I think so
Was distributive justice applied properly? I think so
If you dont think so then state with facts why

[feriksson]

I was expecting another kinda of swords from a GM Nyx

[GMNyx]

Like I've always said, maybe if GMs spent more time trying to improve the server instead of their own characters, we would not run into these problems. It is sad that we are the victims.

currently only 2 GMs play actively so its LESS than before.

ps: Shaynes theft could have possibly lead to criminal charges so dont bring this up anymore.

As for "holding up the game play", there are 4 hours to do the quest. When players go to quest they should definitely put aside 4 hours to do a quest. Finishing in 1 hour is definitely a privilege, not a right. ZT has never stopped any players from getting dual fame by prolonging to the full extent of tim

That would be correct if it took you that time to complete it and not sit in a corner for 3h and 59 min. Hence its not. When the check is included youll get booted with this kind of tactic. Its definetly holding up for some people

[Xendro]

I think this action against ZT was a bit exagerated aswell. Quests have a time limit of four hours and therefor they should be able to last that long. If you think people prolong it on purpose, fine code it to last up to three hours then instead of blacklisting a guild. No one is being forced to wait on the winning team. If they can't wait that long they can always leave.

[PuroOsso]

I think this action against ZT was a bit exagerated aswell. Quests have a time limit of four hours and therefor they should be able to last that long. If you think people prolong it on purpose, fine code it to last up to three hours then instead of blacklisting a guild. No one is being forced to wait on the winning team. If they can't wait that long they can always leave.

we ady said it lots of times.
but I think the ''gm team '' still do not understand.

[Olon]

I think this action against ZT was a bit exagerated aswell. Quests have a time limit of four hours and therefor they should be able to last that long. If you think people prolong it on purpose, fine code it to last up to three hours then instead of blacklisting a guild. No one is being forced to wait on the winning team. If they can't wait that long they can always leave.

Exactly, but the case here is that GMs pushed this too far already to actually admit they did this whole thing wrong and apologize.
For the other guilds stopping the quest, we didnt even hunt on that floor at first, other guild had ALL the keys, so please...
And mind telling me why OmegaSage and his crew have not yet received a punishment for wasting the whole 2 hours in wars? Kill every other player besides vyseus in a single war for this and I take this as an apology and won't say another word about it. Either that or kill everyone besides ZT in an abyss. You can't seem to understand that those cases are EXACTLY the same but since there was no GM(Jill) crying about it you won't take any action.
Tbh I'm disappointed too, was hoping for something else here as well.

[feriksson]

Srry Nyx, but i think u are really dont speaking from a GM Place, i think u have dificults to aboard your evident rage against ZT, is a evident GM abrassion in others Words, Corruption.

Lest me comment my point of view, and you can response all my question's if u want, i dont feel good writing this but i should.

Lets make this clear. The only thing that matters is was this fair or not? is the damage caused to the ZT invididuals higher than the damage caused to the community.

¿How u can give fairness if u dont undestand that there are only 1 comunity? In your's word, i can undestand, u are separating the DRG Comunity and ZT members.

¿Wath is the diference beteween ZT members and the "Comunity"? I ask this, couse maybe it can be justifying the instant special "punishment" to a this "Special" Guild.


With your first sentences, we can define this new's 2 groups on DRG:
Group 1: defined like "The comumunity" (All Yllse, All Zypern, The rest of Vyseus exept ZT members **notes GM chars are included here)
Group 2: defined like "Zt Individuals" (Zt members)

Now lets define 'Fair' before we go any further:
#1 Equity
#2 Distributive justice as resources are limited

Most players seem to skip the second part of this very important concept and an integral part of fairness

We agree on this, but like u explain almost player's skips the second part. I accuse you from Skip the "Group 2", in your "Fairness" system. (Maybe the limited resources of this fairness system dont able for Integer the "Group 2", or maybe some personal Interest can be involved here and screwing up the system, or maybe, some Old rage, we shuld undestand this isnt the first DR server)

¿I shuld Explain why i say that?. Ok, i will do it, with 1 question. ¿How to Bring fairness, when the person in charge define you on diferent group than "the comunity"?

This player was banned for using a bug (his story keeps changing which is always entertaining). The pasted part is the final and last part of a great fictional comedy.

@@, In my point of view, the only comedy here, was the Punishment.
¿Nothing has been covered?, ¿wath about the promissed Roll Back to sweats?, He keeps runing on the server with his Gifted D3.
Something wath make me laught here, the guild was desesperated wating his 7 days ban, for Re-tranfer the leader position. I just add, this is the Jill guild (Obscourse, she isnt GM when she play his Char, that can make the shit looks less shit.)

Really wonder of it. Some new learning for those players who's want learn how to Exploit / hack DR (The messagge: "SCREW US, only 7 Days bans!" Obscouse them shuld appear be a victim, and swear help to fix the bugg after them got Cached.

Feel like a another requirement for do this, is belong to "Chaos Raper guild", we can afirme, the case of Tiffany & Lookout was a complete "EPIC FAIL", he shuld was druged attacking ZT guild on WG with Xice-hack , i feel srry for them, them shuld pay a class to Fayen.

Fact #5 If your guild leader doesnt relay messages from GM you should quit the guild. There will be features in which the guild leader will do decisions that will affect your character in ways. There is just no other way around this.

So, ¿The point is tranfer the fault of not be Warned to the guild leader? For, me, u are complete wrong here. This sound like Hand's washing from GM team.

¿How many time can take u, advertise a player before Pusnish it?, o ..... right, is more easy punish it, and crucify the guild leader for the non-advertice.

Now go ahead and FIND ME A RULE where it says we CAN'T use the time given to us by the makers of this game to finish the quest as we please.
Why you gotta be such a hypocrite.

might sound corny but the GM's have a duty to individuals versus groups. Why? Because it works in real life too. In real life civil legal systems (and in other mmorpgs) broad "general clause" allows the authority to have leeway in applying the law. Decision was based on equity, distributive justice and common good.

Isnt Corny, that involves ur Personal subjetives and unparcial idea of the common good. And we are here again, out of the server rules frames, (Like Saddam Hussain or Fidel Castro law's system) that is the couse of this Screwed shit. "Trying to make Fairness on your loved a Corny Group1"

two Vyseus guilds alive throughout the whole quest. So why was it only ZT was punished?

Did they actively participate in blocking the quest? Doubt it. They just went with the flow

This shuld response better the Mr.X question, ¿Why them shuld be pusnihsed with out sense and by a screwed, instant, Subjetive and personal rule? Them dont punished them couse, that instat rule was created for the "Group2".


Srry for my english, is like cavernicole.

About the shayne Legal accusations? can explain better that???

If u want lose money, u can make a demand here =) I will be wating you.

[LadyPhoenix]

two Vyseus guilds alive throughout the whole quest. So why was it only ZT was punished?

Did they actively participate in blocking the quest? Doubt it. They just went with the flow

I'll play devil's advocate then. How do you know some ZT members aren't just "going with the flow"? How do you know that it's not just the ZT guild leader who is calling the shots and the rest of the members are just "going with the flow"? The other 2 Vyseus guilds didn't oppose what ZT is doing, did they? You're targeting and singling out a particular guild/group instead of punishing individuals for their own crimes.

Let me ask you this, if ZT broke up tonight and all the members made their own guilds. Then they repeat this situation, would you still punish all the "ex-ZT members" or would you just say "Player x, player y, and player z should be punished. The rest just went with the flow"?


I don't like ZT and I like defending them even less... but it makes me sad to see the kind of excuses and logic the GMs are using. Granted, I probably wouldn't be much better had I been in GMSignPainter's shoes but at the same time, only 2 GMs player the game (as a GM stated in a previous post) so there should be enough neutral and unbiased GMs to make a decision/statement.