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[Thomas]

I am basing my arguments on situation when both archer and thief have possiblilty of z/sfd- not just 1v1.

But as you want, lets see when archer and thief go solely 1v1..
If archer uses ice shield instead of sfd/pro he will not gain defence buff bonus and to 60-100ac archer this means roughly 11-14k damage from single opponent shot, even a scratch from ex kills at this level- for example 2x critical ice shots can kill (even 1 shot if thief has vigilante symbol 2x force rares 1dist rare and lg knife)
Same time 1v1 thief using ice shield gains 30% damage reduction to his 200ac and if it is soley 1v1 neither of them do not have z.
This means that even if archer drops thief ac by 25 (hitting 5 shots of ac drop in row) and manages to land a full ex afterwards, he will not kill that thief.

In mass battle archer using ice shield means that he is getting in - 15-20k normal/double slash from warrior , 15-20k ex from thief... and 99% probabilty to get stunned by wiz not to even mention that priest can LD all his hp with 1spell.... someone said before that he would like to see 1spell that does 150k damage.. well we have 1spell that does around 50k damage.
To be honest if i did not get stun all the time i would even use that since getting twice as much hurt gives me still more chance to survive than just being f*** by pepsi

Force rare is limited at g20 and this is obtained regardless what symbol you take. Additionally the ex gain does not work on blue rare, this means that for example a thief that has 2force 1ac (200ac) set has more advantage to gain than full force g20 archer(in terms of % damage increase).
Taking force symbol is just choosing g4 extra rare effect over g7 rare effect. If you learn about thief and archer symbols you will see that actually thief gains not just same force symbol as archer but additionally same amount of distant rare effect.

Also about the fire bow, its resistance is nullified by BR rares but in the other hand shield ac drops spell damage and BR damage giving them same overall defence vs fire spells but additionally shield protects also from other types of elemental damage like lightning/ice.

Comparing defence to attack power: we have ac mantle witch is 20white ac and attack mantle witch is 30-48 damage
If you compare shield to bow increase the difference is 34white ac to 30damage....

And to be honest i belive these constant pepsi battles are not just ruining my gameplay

[Dragonrajashop]

I am basing my arguments on situation when both archer and thief have possiblilty of z/sfd- not just 1v1.

But as you want, lets see when archer and thief go soley 1v1..
If archer uses ice shield instead of sfd/pro he will not gain defence buff bonus and to 60-100ac archer this means roughly 11-14k damage from single opponent shot, even a scratch from ex kills at this level- for example 2x critical ice shots can kill (even 1 shot if thief has vigilante symbol 2x force rares 1dist rare and lg knife)
Same time 1v1 thief using ice shield gains 30% damage reduction to his 200ac and if it is soley 1v1 neither of them do not have z.
This means that even if archer drops thief ac by 25 (hitting 5 shots of ac drop in row) and manages to land a full ex afterwards, he will not kill that thief.

In mass battle archer using ice shield means that he is getting in - 15-20k normal/double slash from warrior , 15-20k ex from thief... and 99% probabilty to get stunned by wiz not to even mention that priest can LD all his hp with 1spell.... someone said before that he would like to see 1spell that does 150k damage.. well we have 1spell that does around 50k damage.
To be honest if i did not get stun all the time i would even use that since getting twice as much hurt gives me still more chance to survive than just being f*** by pepsi

Force rare is limited at g20 and this is obtained regardless what symbol you take. Additionally the ex gain does not work on blue rare, this means that for example a thief that has 2force 1ac (200ac) set has more advantage to gain than full force g20 archer(in terms of % damage increase).
Taking force symbol is just choosing g4 extra rare effect over g7 rare effect. If you learn about thief and archer symbols you will see that actually thief gains not just same force symbol as archer but additionally same amount of distant rare effect.

Also about the fire bow, its resistance is nullified by BR rares but in the other hand shield ac drops spell damage and BR damage giving them same overall defence vs fire spells but additionally shield protects also from other types of elemental damage like lightning/ice.

Comparing defence to attack power: we have ac mantle witch is 20white ac and attack mantle witch is 30-48 damage
If you compare shield to bow increase the difference is 34white ac to 30damage....

And to be honest i believe these constant pepsi battles are not just ruining my gameplay

Sigh, and this is why players like you end up quitting or go to class where they feel more comfortable, because you don't understand that you can make yourself stronger. But your brain is stuck on how your current status is, so you think you have no possible way of winning. Change your rare set around, for thief vs archer. Just like a warrior, they use strike / counter. Why don't archers use strike and counter. mix in some ac or smart??? That's because, again, your stuck on your current status, having full force and nothing more.

That's the thing, there are soooooooo many options to go with. Like I said earlier in this topic, use it at the right time and right place. Be smart about what you're doing.

Just keep playing your thief if that's where you feel comfortable. But I guarantee you will die to other classes too. It's just how the game works. No class will be 100% dominate, because there is always a counter.

[Titus]

To Dragonrajashop: I desagree all you said.

To GMSP and the others players: perhaps, we, the archers players, looks desperated to get more power/balance to archers. Try to be in our place. We insist during 1.5 years trying to balance archers, now some things happend, and a new balance is out there, perhaps this is our last chance, or perhaps next chance will be in 1 year, thats why we insist making many suggestions/formulas/esperiences. If GMSP promise us that this is only a test, and we will have many new balances in the future ( all the balances needed to make it fair for all) we can rest some time ( 1 or 2 mounths ) and test this new balance. But if this is the last balance in the DR story, please give us some happy days.

I repeat, im very happy because of this new changes and bugs fixed, server is runing again, keep going the same way , using expert players feedback.

[Thomas]

No , this is the conclusion i have after trying several different sets including.

desire
resist rares
robber rares
counter attack
ac
smart
strike
evasion
snag
slow
Distance
Dark cs tree

and so on... + different combinations of all above, its not like i started DR yesterday.
For example you can read a bit what i wrote about robber rares
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15693

I have 4-5 different sets in inventory all the time including 220ac+g10evasion turtle set
If you see me ingame, come i will show and explain why one or other will not work/is at disadvantage.

You should try playing archer, you will see how those soooooo many different option kind of narrow down quite fast.
I am also a thief player and i consider thief to be much more superior to archer even after the changes.

[muking]

hmmm +1 for thomas on speed pot keep effect for 10 seconds

I already suggested in suggestions section before half year!!

[Thomas]

hmmm +1 for thomas on speed pot keep effect for 10 seconds

I already suggested in suggestions section before half year!!

Yes, i mentioned in my post also that this has been suggested by another player before but i did not remember if that was you or kador

[muking]

You can't compare 1 VS 1 PVP when you are getting support from another class (SFD And Zerk)

Archer VS Thief (1 VS 1) Pepsi is completely useless since you can use ice shield.

Archers have Force Symbol
Archers have AC Drop (25 AC Drop)(8.3% Damage reduction)
I'm basing this off Shining Weapons, but Archers get 30 more overall attack power with Bow + Arrows.
Archers get Resist Blaze (For Firebird & Flamewave)

Meh

now all dueling, event have support buff, at least hv Z! not including stroke and power up candle! so counting the damage with no Z is a bit useless! RE Thomas, ya, that's y I agree with you this time xD!!

[Dragonrajashop]

Do what makes you feel comfortable. But archers can be very strong class just like any other class. Depends how much time you put into your character.

When Torment was still actively playing, he was one of the strongest characters in the server.

All classes can kill all classes.

Enough said....

[Thomas]

Looks like brain power ran out in this discussion
I wish just once a player could come up with a better argument than "Torment was strong"... its not much to ask is it?
1,5years ive discussed in this topic, i must have heard it about 100 times already...

[Dragonrajashop]

Looks like brain power ran out in this discussion

Not really, it's just pointless to argue with someone that thinks a class is THAT under powered. Learn to play... instead of whining.

Your options are there, buff your character up some more. Make better rares, use your brain instead of trying to take the easy way out.

Give me, Give me, Give me... Typical.