Converting Armor Tweak

[Titus]

Well.. is it time to make final numbers? Please close the Tweak and show us the results.

[soya]

sorry I'm pretty noob but is archer really that harder than thief? Archer bow & arrow has higher natural damage plus you can make rare with the bow. Thief can make rare with knife but you gotta be hella rich to be able to use high grade knives/ pointless. thief has shield but I think thats the tradeoff ppl shoudlve been aware of when making their characters.

the thief vs archer argument really comes down to...
thief/shield vs archer/higher natural damage plus extra slot for rares.

[Ipwn_]

sorry I'm pretty noob but is archer really that harder than thief? Archer bow & arrow has higher natural damage plus you can make rare with the bow. Thief can make rare with knife but you gotta be hella rich to be able to use high grade knives/ pointless. thief has shield but I think thats the tradeoff ppl shoudlve been aware of when making their characters.

the thief vs archer argument really comes down to...
thief/shield vs archer/higher natural damage plus extra slot for rares.

The problem is Archer's survivability. Because they dont have a shield they have very low ac (defense) which causes them to die almost instantly in battle if you aren't very high lv or have very good rares (or if you just suck at archer). The extra attack power hardly makes a differnce when it really comes down to it. But if they can reduce the defense of their opponent from a distance, it would allow the archer to possibly kill that player in a single ex or a dbl ex which would greatly increase their survivablity.

I may have missed some stuff but i think this basicly covers it.

[soya]

sorry I'm pretty noob but is archer really that harder than thief? Archer bow & arrow has higher natural damage plus you can make rare with the bow. Thief can make rare with knife but you gotta be hella rich to be able to use high grade knives/ pointless. thief has shield but I think thats the tradeoff ppl shoudlve been aware of when making their characters.

the thief vs archer argument really comes down to...
thief/shield vs archer/higher natural damage plus extra slot for rares.

The problem is Archer's survivability. Because they dont have a shield they have very low ac (defense) which causes them to die almost instantly in battle if you aren't very high lv or have very good rares (or if you just suck at archer). The extra attack power hardly makes a differnce when it really comes down to it. But if they can reduce the defense of their opponent from a distance, it would allow the archer to possibly kill that player in a single ex or a dbl ex which would greatly increase their survivablity.

I may have missed some stuff but i think this basicly covers it.

archers don't have shield but have extra slot for rare. they can make a g5/g6 bow 28/33 ac. dr slayer shield is 33 ac. IF the archer is really rich he can even get double rare bow. I never playd archer so I'll end my theory crafting there. I did play a high rate server before where everyone was like D5. thief vs archer seemed pretty balanced, its just that when compared to other classes both thief and archer seem pretty weak end game, with equivalent level, rares...

In my opinion upgrade double X to lvl 2 for both archer and thief.

[mofomaycry]

the main problem is that rangers in this game isn't really designated to combat at long range,thief and archer have to fight in melee

and melee such as warrior,have longer attack range than rangers,look at these spear and fencing warrior,then compare their attack range with archer and thief ;c

[Thomas]

archers don't have shield but have extra slot for rare. they can make a g5/g6 bow 28/33 ac. dr slayer shield is 33 ac. IF the archer is really rich he can even get double rare bow. I never playd archer so I'll end my theory crafting there. I did play a high rate server before where everyone was like D5. thief vs archer seemed pretty balanced, its just that when compared to other classes both thief and archer seem pretty weak end game, with equivalent level, rares...

In my opinion upgrade double X to lvl 2 for both archer and thief.

Your theory has a bit point but there are quite the drawbacks to this: dont forget: rare effect is limited (g20 with force and ac)
If you discard fire bow to lets say rare sylphido, you discard around g7force and g12,5fire resist... decreasing your damage significantly and making yourself again 1fb food for wizard.
DS Shield effect can be calculated around g7ac+g8resist all+most importantly ability to decrease BR spell damage.
DS Shield is 34 ac and adds to AC cap at g20 since it is white ac... Also you pretty much reach the g20 with symbol+1ac item+2xSC meaning that archer will have around 170ac and thief 205, archer cant get any more than this since he is allready g19,5ac...
That rare possibility can be used with some status change rare like snag/slack but for example thief are doing the same with their pepsi set AND getting additional bonus from shield.

Read more regarding imbalance topics, you will see that the DS shield/bow is not the only difference.

[mrlobak]

archers don't have shield but have extra slot for rare. they can make a g5/g6 bow 28/33 ac. dr slayer shield is 33 ac. IF the archer is really rich he can even get double rare bow. I never playd archer so I'll end my theory crafting there. I did play a high rate server before where everyone was like D5. thief vs archer seemed pretty balanced, its just that when compared to other classes both thief and archer seem pretty weak end game, with equivalent level, rares...

In my opinion upgrade double X to lvl 2 for both archer and thief.

Your theory has a bit point but there are quite the drawbacks to this: dont forget: rare effect is limited (g20 with force and ac)
If you discard fire bow to lets say rare sylphido, you discard around g7force and g12,5fire resist... decreasing your damage significantly and making yourself again 1fb food for wizard.
DS Shield effect can be calculated around g7ac+g8resist all+most importantly ability to decrease BR spell damage.
DS Shield is 34 ac and adds to AC cap at g20 since it is white ac... Also you pretty much reach the g20 with symbol+1ac item+2xSC meaning that archer will have around 170ac and thief 205, archer cant get any more than this since he is allready g19,5ac...
That rare possibility can be used with some status change rare like snag/slack but for example thief are doing the same with their pepsi set AND getting additional bonus from shield.

Read more regarding imbalance topics, you will see that the DS shield/bow is not the only difference.

That's true if u use a AC bow instead of a fire bow/LG bow and lead u to die more easier when u as a attacker.
Convincing info i will say!

[DrLymoC]

I play Priest character and to me is the same problem to kill or die against it as Thieves or Wizards. If something going to be changed should be something that doesnt overpower archers.

[täisdibla]

I play Priest character and to me is the same problem to kill or die against it as Thieves or Wizards. If something going to be changed should be something that doesnt overpower archers.

This doesn't overpower archers, period.

[mrlobak]

Well.. is it time to make final numbers? Please close the Tweak and show us the results.