Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

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LadyPhoenix
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby LadyPhoenix » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:39 pm

Elmy is tired of Yllse not being able to stand on his own it's 2 and tired of being the nice, neutral guy so now he wants Yllse to show of it's power. Maybe he's going at it a little too gun-ho though. The best way to unite a group of people is to give them a common cause. Obviously yllse doesn't share the common dream of being united. They do share the common dream of enjoying DR and winning though. Having Vys/Zyp kill all of Yllse will force them to unite together to fight back. the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

After reading atlantis and jay, I see one flaw in elmy's goals. What happens after you unite yllse? What happens once yllse is strong and people aren't afraid of getting owned by Zyp/Vys anymore. Then lucky will most likely break up and people will go back to making their own guilds because they will get arrogant and egoistical. Large guilds generally don't stay large for a long time :/
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Hennessey
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Hennessey » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:22 am

I'm simply looking at it this way, and this is the very veryyyyy last thing i will even say on this topic because it is extremely straight forward; i am going to stay with my friends on the guild i am CURRENTLY in for the sole reason they are my friends. My loyalty remains to my friends and always will, and when it comes down to war time my loyalty will be to the nation. They keyword in this is "LOYALTY" Elmy; i have no grudge with you, nor will i ever, also nor will i ever let our arguments on these forums carry over ingame -- you just need to realise that some people are far more loyal to their friends than having one huge guild (which btw, huge guilds = tension between members, which means drama, which means that they will not be as effective as a team.)

I would rather everyone worked as one as a TEAM in war, than be expected to join one big guild "just cause."

With that said, i wish you only the best Elmy and i hope all goes well for what you're trying to accomplish.
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Silencer
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Silencer » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:39 am

I'm surprised you let people walk over your arguments with misunderstandings elmy. For example,this is the way I read the argument,

Hennessey wrote:someone else has made a promise to unite the nation... i've heard that said too many times and have seen it fail just as many times. we have a good thing going, and we'll be just fine.


In response,

Elmy wrote:This viewpoint is just another prime example of why Yllse has never had a chance in the past, Ehrgeiz.


That's how it was suppose to be read, at least from my logical point of view. However, this is the response,

Hennessey wrote:what? i want to be with my friends and not joining a guild with people i dont even know that well. you'd make the same decision so dont give me that bs. outside of war my friends are my friends (from the other nations.), in war.. just another opponent.


Makes no sense whatsoever to me. Elmy was probably responding to the first quoted statement in this post, but Jay responds with wanting to be with friends. How does wanting to be with friends have ANYTHING to do with Elmy responding to cynicism and saying that cynicism is the reason why Yllse never had the chance in the past? And then the argument spirals out of control because this illogical progression of argument isn't addressed. Everything Jay has mentioned is valid, but it doesn't fit with what Elmy was addressing, which is the cynicism, not the wanting to be with friends part. Don't mind me, I'm bored and I like to see how people debate :o Now of course, I could be wrong and Elmy WAS responding to the "I want to be with my friends more than uniting Yllse." However, that is not the case most likely. Then in which case, ignore this post

And on another note, I thought Ted WAS joining Lucky or am I missing something?

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Elmy
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Elmy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:15 am

You are correct, Silencer, that is actually precisely what I was addressing with that statement. But I got bored of that argument. When he misinterpreted it so much, either purposefully or not, I realized it wouldn't matter what I said. Since the friend argument can easily be countered by the friends joining, it's clear that he's simply not interested in doing so.

I already type so much, it's tiring =/ That's why I randomly drop arguments, otherwise it's easy to go on forever. I still have a few messages and posts I need to answer but I'm all typed out and tired after work today.

Atlantis; I'm glad I could clear that up. But that made me chuckle. You already said that I type too much in another post, and you say that I should make sure I am clear and in-depth like this in all my posts. That would mean I would have to type more :) Usually I don't like to explain the logic behind my reasoning, because I feel that it is common sense most of the time. Silencer here is a prime example of that. People who use common sense are very predictable when it comes to arguments, for someone who is like-minded. For example, I wouldn't argue with someone like Silencer, because in an argument he is the kind of person that would know in advance what my counter argument to an argument would be, because we both would have predicted the others side already. Just like how there are many sides to an argument that would back up my side that I would discard off the bat simply because it's a silly point. As an example, I wouldn't use an argument like 'staying with friends'. (Not trying to spark another argument here, just using the best example at my disposal right now...) because there is a simple solution to it; friends join too.

And I do apologize for the actions of that priest. As I said, this is not my intention or motive. Although there is a good point behind the argument that big guilds = drama, I can assure you that more drama will be caused by such scenarios as I've described in my other post. Things will be a lot more... difficult, and the goal will become muddy if we also have to fight with Yllser's as a result of misunderstandings or other issues. But, I'm being an optimist in that people can put aside differences with each other in the guild. If conflicts arise, they will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. I could not possibly predict right now what would be the result of guild members PKing each other without knowing the circumstances surrounding it.

On a side note, I can assure you that the CN guild and ZT do not in fact respect each other :)

Hennesey; My 'just cause' for wanting everyone to join is explained in this very thread.

illegal content removed; Welp, of course that is a possibility, as all things. I try not to think that far ahead, and take the goal one step at a time, though. If something along those lines were to happen down the road, then I will deal with it then. I'm more of a 'deal with the problems you can deal with now' type of guy. I'll deal with the problems of the future, in the future. There's nothing I can do about them now anyway, so there's no need to break my head over it. All I can do is try to steer away from such a path. The best way I can do that is try to get everyone on the same page, and maybe even make old enemies and rivals into friends or at least being able to tolerate one another. Even if Lucky were to break apart either gradually or suddenly, so long as it is done cordially between everyone, we would be one step ahead of where we were before.


Edit; oh, and as far as I know Ted is still joining on live. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a secret, but I assumed it was not since he's talked about it in the center of Yllse market before. But of course, I am sure Ted is not Ehrgeiz' only friend in Intent to Kill. It's likely that DeadlyShadow will end up leading Lucky at some point in the future, so maybe Ehr will get himself to join then, as it appears my arrogance and thick-skulledness is too much for him :lol:
Why should I fear Death? If Death is,
I am not, if I am, Death is not. So why
should I fear that which can only exist if
I do not?

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Shayne
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Shayne » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:05 am

omg.... T_T T_T T_T
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Zero Tolerance

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KINGNEWBIE
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby KINGNEWBIE » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:19 am

T_T somebody read it out loud please
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love ever lasting fades away..

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täisdibla
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby täisdibla » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:15 am

I can appreciate you trying to make yllse stronger but I still think strong and permanent alliances with other guild leaders you can trust would be a better way. Just 1 big guild in yllse... I personally do NOT want to join Lucky because I feel like being pressured to go there atm.
With 1 big guild people WILL WANT TO LEAVE sooner or later for whatever reasons.
With an alliance of guilds the contact isn't so tight and people are left with room to breathe.
For example a three guild alliance between Lucky, Intent To Kill and one more decent guild or even a five guild alliance.
Lucky could be like one of the more important guilds in the alliance BUT will not hold too much power over the other guilds and their leaders. Guild leaders will still make their own decisions(not the "you don't make rares to anyone but US" bullshit) but they will consider suggestions from others in the alliance and offer a helping hand if someone needs it( lets say for example, ITK guild members are being PKed in a neutral area and ask Lucky for help, Lucky isnt forced to come but they are expected to show up and help, if not, then the relations between those guilds weaken and so does the alliance)

There are so many benefits to having a good alliance but you need a few good DR politicians to hold the alliance together.

Silencer
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Silencer » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:24 am

I don't know how people got the impression that Elmy's trying to pressure people to join Lucky as one big guild to dominate Yllse. I think he's been quite straightforward in terms of being conciliatory. Quite frankly, he's providing leadership that many others are not providing or lack the capability to do so. And this is precisely why I genuinely think trying to have Yllse work together is like herding cats. Literally. No one is forcing anyone to join Lucky. If anything, all Elmy has said was he'd forget past... judgments and start anew so that Yllse can actually stand up to the big guilds in Vyseus and Zypern. As someone who has been playing in Yllse since the very very very first DRint (remember trying to log in?), this is a welcoming change that I can support. I'm not going to say Elmy has the best solution to solve the problem, but I am going to acknowledge that his is the only solution spelled out and planned in detail. If anyone has a DIFFERENT solution (not the same old), then please feel free to spell it out.

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täisdibla
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby täisdibla » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:40 pm

Silencer wrote:As someone who has been playing in Yllse since the very very very first DRint (remember trying to log in?)


:lol: :lol: I remember that very well. I was in vyseus though.
Anyway whatever his methods, 1 big guild just won't do it for me.

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Elmy
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Re: Attention Yllse Guildleaders...

Postby Elmy » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:20 pm

I even made a login macro. I remember that it was during war time that servers were down, and war started JUST before I'd get home from school. So I'd stay logged in all day and hope I didn't DC. Otherwise, put on my login macro and go do something else for a while :lol:


Anyway, Silencer summed it up pretty good. I wouldn't care how big or small Lucky was if every person and guild in Yllse had the same goal / mentality, but that's not the case. So, the more people I can bring over to this side, the better. For our goals, at least.
Why should I fear Death? If Death is,
I am not, if I am, Death is not. So why
should I fear that which can only exist if
I do not?


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