Lucky & intent merge

[Elmy]

This isn't something I hadn't considered... but, I'll give you the full reasoning as to why I dismissed it.

First and foremost, and most importantly, we do not have the same goals. I don't think I really need to elaborate this?

2nd, I can't be sure that everyone would follow. For example... I considered the same thing with LP and CK, simply merging Lucky into them or letting LP lead, but that was an unfavorable end to many currently in the guild. And if some didn't follow, that would defy the point of this whole thing. Before any major changes, I'd like things to stabilize in live first, and get a good grip on things.

3rd, the size of the guilds doesn't really concern me, nor do I care which guild has more people. But I doubt that Minerva is interested in such a merger in the first place. Because, there would be no real difference between either Lucky joining Intent or Intent joining Lucky, except for the leader. If he were to accept Lucky joining Intent, that would imply that the reason he didn't want to do it in the first place was because he wouldn't be leader of the guild. Or at least, some type of figurehead. That is not something I could accept, and not the kind of person that I could follow. I would just go off on my own again. To want to be leader just for the sake of being leader indicates a lack of care in the actual cause, but more of a grab for influence / power. That is greed. (To clarify, this is not what I am implying is the fact of things. I am just trying to give an insight as to how my thought process works here.)

As for Ted, the agreement so far is only with him. Brandon (Minipp) showed no interest in re-creating Carebears, which I was going to join if he was. He then said that we should all join Lucky instead, which Ted had also proposed before I even spoke with Minipp. So, originally, Lucky was going to be the destination for myself, Ted and most of the core Carebears group. Then I decided to expand the doors a bit, to see what we could do on a larger scale, since I didn't think that even the group we had originally would get together at all.

[Atlantis]

To want to be leader just for the sake of being leader indicates a lack of care in the actual cause, but more of a grab for influence / power. That is greed. (To clarify, this is not what I am implying is the fact of things. I am just trying to give an insight as to how my thought process works here.)

Some can argue that if you decline such a merge that you are doing the same thing because you want to be leader. I personally dont think ted even wants to be a leader as he told me about 20 times, that he doesnt want to lead that many people. But as i said if lucky cant be talked into joining intent. Then you cant blame intent for the same thing because selfishness.

Bottom line if lucky wont and intent wont then yllse wont be united. Seeing as those are the to big guilds and with a bunch of little ones running around like BK with greywolf coming back. Might want to sit down and work this out or theres not hope for the vision.

[Atlantis]

wow calm down guys this is a open to all topic. You guys want a united yllse but you dont think the people of yllse should talk about it?

As of this morning 3am witch was 12 hours ago they were not going to merge with lucky. I spoke with deadly and he said that majority decided not to so they arent. Now if you have newer news then i do please feel free to post it.

BTW ted indeed wants to merge but will not do so with out majority. So that begs the question why doesnt lucky think about joining intent?

There we go, thank you for providing the context for your original post. Now it makes sense. But I'm guessing there's more to it than not wanting to merge with Lucky so if you would be so kind as to provide some background on the politics of not wanting to merge with Lucky, that would help fuel the discussion. From what I know of Ted, it's not that the majority of the guild didn't want to join with Lucky, it's that the majority of his friends (Jay and etc) didn't want to join with Lucky. As of right now, I can hardly imagine him inviting half the people that are in intent to kill in the beta to launch. Then again, this is just my guess so I am probably wrong.

Personally, I would love it if Ted would join Lucky, as that would mean the majority of my friends would be in one guild. I've always been plagued by friends splitting up into different guilds although I have always ended up with Brandon's guild. As long as I have Brandon, Guties, and Ted's faction in one place I am happy to join whichever guild it is.

All i know from deadly is that he likes the idea of what elmy wants and would like to join lucky. But he will not with out all of the key members of his guild agreeing. He also told me that hes not for lucky merge into intent either because he doesnt want to lead that many people.

The only reason i made this post is to see what lucky members thought of the idea and what elmy thought aswell.

[Elmy]

To want to be leader just for the sake of being leader indicates a lack of care in the actual cause, but more of a grab for influence / power. That is greed. (To clarify, this is not what I am implying is the fact of things. I am just trying to give an insight as to how my thought process works here.)

Some can argue that if you decline such a merge that you are doing the same thing because you want to be leader. I personally dont think ted even wants to be a leader as he told me about 20 times, that he doesnt want to lead that many people. But as i said if lucky cant be talked into joining intent. Then you cant blame intent for the same thing because selfishness.

Bottom line if lucky wont and intent wont then yllse wont be united. Seeing as those are the to big guilds and with a bunch of little ones running around like BK with greywolf coming back. Might want to sit down and work this out or theres not hope for the vision.

You could surely argue that. Except, I have no interest in leading, and if I could do it easily I would hand it over to someone else. With work and other real life obligations, the time I can spend here is not nearly as much as I'd like to make sure everything goes as smoothly as I want it too. I told Ted he could have it if he wanted, even before this whole mess. Minipp & KidKiller can also attest to the fact that I was willing to simply be a member of their guild, as well.... In any case, I've stated my arguments.

And of course... I can always fall back on my first point, which you didn't address, and is also the most important one.

And in case you misread, I didn't say I would decline a merge with Intent. If everyone in Lucky wanted to merge with Intent, that would be fine with me. However, as I said, I would go off in my own. See point #1. Yllse won't be completely united unless all of the big guilds goals are the same. Intent's goal is not the same as Lucky's. Until that changes, nothing can really change.

[Silencer]

To want to be leader just for the sake of being leader indicates a lack of care in the actual cause, but more of a grab for influence / power. That is greed. (To clarify, this is not what I am implying is the fact of things. I am just trying to give an insight as to how my thought process works here.)

Some can argue that if you decline such a merge that you are doing the same thing because you want to be leader. I personally dont think ted even wants to be a leader as he told me about 20 times, that he doesnt want to lead that many people. But as i said if lucky cant be talked into joining intent. Then you cant blame intent for the same thing because selfishness.

To clarify, this is not what I am implying is the fact of things. I am just trying to give an insight as to how my thought process works here.

So anyways, I guess my conjecture was correct, it was the core group that is overruling Ted, not the entirety of intent itself. Personally I would like this thing to work out, but logically, if Ted is being overruled by his core members then I see no way of him leading his core members to lucky. Although I got to ask, why are they against joining lucky? It's not like Elmy is going to ostracize a certain number of them, therefore separating the group apart. If their goal is really to be with friends, then that can be achieved in intent or lucky or some other guild as well. I'm going to go out of a limb here and say they simply do not like Elmy or the core group of Lucky members. Which in that case, a merger would be a disaster. I say I make a guild called Joon Rules and have everyone join it

One thing you guys could try out is co-leadership. Have the leaders of the three major factions rotate leadership, with rank 1 and rank 2 rotating. Every other member will be rank 3/4/5. The co-leaders of current factions can be rank 3 while the rest can be rank 4, with new members having rank 5. All decisions will go through the three leaders agreeing on the course of action and none of the lower rank members will object too much. I personally would love to see this as an aspiring political scientist, perhaps I can make a paper out of how this turns out

[Elmy]

Well, the way Rank 2 was going to work basically was as a sort of round table... Without most of rank 2's approval, a member couldn't be promoted to that rank. This is just because of the way that they would be giving their full support to that person regardless of the circumstances, I wouldn't put anyone at that rank that was an unpopular choice. Nor would I want to make an unpopular decision amongst the members of the guild. The only difference would have been that, at the very beginning, the 'big names' would immediately get this rank, so that we can start supporting each other from the get go, regardless of differences. Of course, as noted in the Lucky guild post, it's entirely viable for someone to refuse Rank 2, so that they don't have to deal with this aspect. The hope is that eventually everyone would be rank 2, fully supporting one another, minus the ones who choose not to be.

I don't really care how the leadership system would be, so long as the intent behind it is basically a unity of sorts.

It's likely my fault, in terms of people not wanting to join Lucky. I got carried away quite a bit on the forums, since I really didn't give a damn. I didn't think I would have to care about my reputation since I wasn't planning on doing anything major like this. I was entirely planning on just throwing my support behind a few certain people. And they already knew who I was, so my actions on the forums wouldn't mean anything to them. It's regrettable, to say the least. I've put aside my own dislike of some people to give everyone a chance and get this done. I had hoped that others could do the same.

[Silencer]

Well what can I say, Yllse is like herding cats. Guess we are seeing that first hand Surprisingly, the people who were the real "cats" like Brandon and Guties, are the ones who are surprisingly quiet. I suspect its a calm before the storm >.<

[grofire]

i do not understand y all yllse need to in one guild ? can't we just never attack ather yllsen ???
if we must kill noobs (witch im tottly agesnt) then go to vys or zyf........
in war all join and help witch ather, and evry time u seen yllse fight with ather nation try to help him.
so easy and will get our nation alot better

[Atlantis]

It's likely my fault, in terms of people not wanting to join Lucky. I got carried away quite a bit on the forums, since I really didn't give a damn. I didn't think I would have to care about my reputation since I wasn't planning on doing anything major like this. I was entirely planning on just throwing my support behind a few certain people. And they already knew who I was, so my actions on the forums wouldn't mean anything to them. It's regrettable, to say the least. I've put aside my own dislike of some people to give everyone a chance and get this done. I had hoped that others could do the same.

I will be quite honest i never knew you that well on other servers. I seen you around but not much interaction. I must say the way you did act when the forums first opened up for this server did make me dislike you a bit. Just because you came off cocky and egotistical. I cant say i hate you but i do dislike people who think they are better then others. With that said i do see you making a effert to be nice and i'm glad to see you point out what has been done. I haven't joined lucky along with others i know not because i dont like your ideals and what your trying to do. But just because from what i have seen on the forums some what turned me off of your personality. It seemed to me that if i joined me and you would clash and i would regret joining. I think this is the same with some of the others in intent(altho i cant speak for them and do not know for sure.) With that said if you some how worked it out with intent i would have no problem putting what i may think about you behind me.

To silencer

You seem to have some good ideas there and atleast instead of being negative you have something constructive to say.

Grofire also has a point and if this thing with intent doesnt work out i think his way is the only way to go about things.

[Atlantis]

Also like to add that, i might be a no body to you, and you really dont even have to hear me out. But I am a player just like you and i like to enjoy the game just as much as you do. So when it comes to respecting people you should respect lvl 50s along with legends. Anytime i ever see anyone i show them respect and i get respect for that. Thats not just directed at elmy it goes for anyone who forgets we are here to have fun and so are those lonely new players that have no one to hang out with. We are all so closed off in our little groups of friends we forget how those people who dont have friends feel.

You always remember the ones that help you out when your a noob, so try to make people remember you.