Monster Levels [Work in progress]

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kador
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby kador » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:31 pm

Titus wrote:monsters level 100 or less have the +/- 9 levels range. I cant see the code, but i test it inside this server and works fine for me. In version 0.69 the Korean admin told me that , but DR was updated many times after that.


You just said GMTempest gave wrong information for us :lol:
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Ipwn_
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby Ipwn_ » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:34 pm

GMTempest wrote:Ettins: 85-99


Titus wrote:monsters level 100 or less have the +/- 9 levels range. I cant see the code, but i test it inside this server and works fine for me. In version 0.69 the Korean admin told me that , but DR was updated many times after that.


Etins are less than 100 and GMSP officially released this as the range. And +/- 9 levels has always been a general rule of thumb, I've never seen this officially stated before.

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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby GMTempest » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:24 am

täisdibla wrote:I started soloing Dark Bears at level 96 on my archer. They gave the best exp to me. Are you sure that's not in the 100% exp range already?

Anyway awesome work, keep it up. (Y)


Yes you are correct. Admittedly, the tests for DB,mushroom kings, and Argos was done at the beginning of the server. I must have done something wrong, I should have realized it when DB was 100 instead of 96 which is pretty widely known. But now the pattern is pretty clear, around a +7/-7 for monsters around that level. That should make it much easier to find ranges.

As for low levels, I'll do some every time T test but don't count on it being the priority for several reasons. First, lower level monsters have much bigger ranges, therefore it is much easier to switch between monsters without needing to know the true range (less error rate). While new players are important, there are much more current players in the mid-high level monsters range which will use the monster levels faster. And lastly, the lowest level monsters are few and can be out leveled quickly (therefore, the information use span is short).


Anyway, fixed a typo with Balrog. Fixed DB, mushking, Argos. Added sandtrap, sandworm, and orcs.
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby täisdibla » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:41 pm

I think this is being approached the wrong way in general, in black and white, there is gray here as well.
Monster exp doesn't simply jump from 10% to 100% with 1 level, it goes progressively from none to 100% and back. The thumb rule of +9/-9 was probably derived from monsters giving 70~100% exp within that level range and people thought it was 100%, since most don't really pay attention to numbers or statistics in this game.

For example I believe you still do not gain 100% exp from an orc at level 30 yet, but you do gain a lot more than you did at 28. Skeletons still give you 100%, but the orcs are stronger and have better spawns, so people move to orcs and even though their exp/damage ratio is less, they still get more exp.
Goes the same for Dark Bears and me. When I was 96 I might've not gained 100%, but perhaps I gained 80%, which was still better than anything else at the time.

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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby Titus » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:55 pm

Etins are less than 100 and GMSP officially released this as the range. And +/- 9 levels has always been a general rule of thumb, I've never seen this officially stated before
.

You should try to kill the monster that gives more exp at your level. The general rule for level 1 to 146 ( i dont know to lvl 150) is :
" Try to level up killing a monster with a level no more than +9 from yours ".

The +/- 9 level rules comes from version 0.69 . In that version to be in a party you should have +/-9 level instead of +/-35 . So the idea was to have a balance withing monsters/partys. Now a level 81 can lich very good exp from a level 116 , in ver 0.69 that was imposible. Strong people level up only with strong people. Lich was not posible. I think the monster rules is the same on this server, only change at level 100+ monsters ( the -9 range) but the +9 range still the same.
Last edited by Titus on Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby Titus » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:05 pm

täisdibla wrote:I think this is being approached the wrong way in general, in black and white, there is gray here as well.
Monster exp doesn't simply jump from 10% to 100% with 1 level, it goes progressively from none to 100% and back. The thumb rule of +9/-9 was probably derived from monsters giving 70~100% exp within that level range and people thought it was 100%, since most don't really pay attention to numbers or statistics in this game.

For example I believe you still do not gain 100% exp from an orc at level 30 yet, but you do gain a lot more than you did at 28. Skeletons still give you 100%, but the orcs are stronger and have better spawns, so people move to orcs and even though their exp/damage ratio is less, they still get more exp.
Goes the same for Dark Bears and me. When I was 96 I might've not gained 100%, but perhaps I gained 80%, which was still better than anything else at the time.


Remember that every time we level up, we need to do more exp to level up again. For example :
If you need 1000 experience to level up from 80 to 81 you will need 1120 more to level up from 81 to 82.
I think the experience needed increase 12% each time we level up ( if we are level 80+)

So every 6 levels, the experience needed to level up its duplicated.
If you need to kill 50 Dark bears to level up from level 96 to 97, you will need to kill 100 to level from 102 to 103 ( If the monster continue giving the 100% of its experience) .
If you need to kill 100 DBs instead 50 dosent means that the DB stop giving good exp to you.
There is an easy way to know the monsters level range, the +9 levels rules works fine for me, for a better rule/monster list we need to know how much exp gives each monster at 100% and how many exp we need to level up in each level.

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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby GMTempest » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:57 pm

täisdibla wrote:I think this is being approached the wrong way in general, in black and white...


Yes and no. Within those ranges, you do receive 100%. Orcs at level 26 and 28 will give you the same experience. The jump from 100% to 0% as said, is not a small jump (not a 80% or 70%). At level 25, on the testing I received 50% exp (as with all the higher level monsters where you are out of range by a single level). At various testing points from 26-51, I've also received the same exp. However, I noticed that based on the range of the monster (DB is 14, Orcs is 25), the rate that exp is dropped, can be done at a slower rate based on how big the range is. For example, DB may drop to 50% in 1 level, then down to 25% in 5 levels whereas orcs may drop to 50% in 1 level and then 25% in 10 levels

You are correct in identifying that there is probably a gray area due to last hitting exp which probably differs from monster to monster. I'd also like to add that during the test, surprisingly enough, I received the same EXP per damage ratio from orcs, db, argos, balrog, sandtraps, etc. There were some exceptions though such as Gazer which gave less exp per damage ratio but in total so far, 90% of the monsters gave the same exp to damage ratio. The pool is too small right now to understand it more accurately. I also did not however, test last hit exp as that would increase the time. But you can assume they increase with each stronger monster (As it wouldn't make sense otherwise). In this case, if under the assumption that monsters (high and low) give the same exp per damage ratio, then the strongest factor would definitely be last hitting exp as some will definitely be more efficient then others (last hit exp to HP ratio).

Titus wrote:Remember that every time we level up, we need to do more exp to level up again. ...


Correct. Though I'd like to add during the testing, I compared raw numbers (exp increase) rather than % change
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täisdibla
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby täisdibla » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:40 pm

GMTempest wrote:
täisdibla wrote:I think this is being approached the wrong way in general, in black and white...


Yes and no. Within those ranges, you do receive 100%. Orcs at level 26 and 28 will give you the same experience. The jump from 100% to 0% as said, is not a small jump (not a 80% or 70%). At level 25, on the testing I received 50% exp (as with all the higher level monsters where you are out of range by a single level). At various testing points from 26-51, I've also received the same exp. However, I noticed that based on the range of the monster (DB is 14, Orcs is 25), the rate that exp is dropped, can be done at a slower rate based on how big the range is. For example, DB may drop to 50% in 1 level, then down to 25% in 5 levels whereas orcs may drop to 50% in 1 level and then 25% in 10 levels

You are correct in identifying that there is probably a gray area due to last hitting exp which probably differs from monster to monster. I'd also like to add that during the test, surprisingly enough, I received the same EXP per damage ratio from orcs, db, argos, balrog, sandtraps, etc. There were some exceptions though such as Gazer which gave less exp per damage ratio but in total so far, 90% of the monsters gave the same exp to damage ratio. The pool is too small right now to understand it more accurately. I also did not however, test last hit exp as that would increase the time. But you can assume they increase with each stronger monster (As it wouldn't make sense otherwise). In this case, if under the assumption that monsters (high and low) give the same exp per damage ratio, then the strongest factor would definitely be last hitting exp as some will definitely be more efficient then others (last hit exp to HP ratio).

Titus wrote:Remember that every time we level up, we need to do more exp to level up again. ...


Correct. Though I'd like to add during the testing, I compared raw numbers (exp increase) rather than % change


I can't agree with this though. It's because for example at level 53 I recieved much better exp at Muginas than Man Scorpions. I often solo level and I love to find the most efficient ways to do it. It was the same for other monsters as well. Well maybe the last hit exp is indeed the culprit.

forever_friendz
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby forever_friendz » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:30 am

I suggest look for the exp for Brue, and also for Baku. They are popular lvl-ing monsters...

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DavidGreen
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Re: Monster Levels [Work in progress]

Postby DavidGreen » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:07 pm

cool thanks a lot!
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